EPISODE 24: I HATE THIS PODCAST
Steve: It kind of feels like you're promising a fight in the title. Conversations with People Who Hate Me implies that there's going to be a conflict, and then you listen, and it's kind of a love fest.
Dylan: (laughs) Does that -- Do you not like the love fest aspect of it?
Steve: I don't mind it.
[Instrumental of ‘These Dark Times’ by Caged Animals begins to play.]
Dylan [VOICEOVER INTRODUCTION]: Hey, I'm Dylan Marron, and this is Conversations with People Who Hate Me, the show where I use negative online comments as a starting point for offline conversations. If you're a creator, you hope people will like the work you make, but you know that not everyone will. Every so often though, you'll come across someone who takes the time to tell you why they don't like something you've made. Today I'm talking to Steve, who really does not like this podcast. Yes, the very one you're listening to right now. A little while ago he tweeted, "I listen to shitty podcasts, too many, tbh, but for some reason, I just can't get Conversations with People Who Hate Me out of my fucking head. It's so bad for a host of reasons, and yet the New York Times thinks this is 'advancing the dialogue.' Such a masturbatory and flawed concept." So, I figured I'd give him a call.
[Phone rings. Music fades. Guest picks up.]
Steve: Hello?
Dylan: Hey, Steve. How are ya?
Steve: Dandy. How are you?
Dylan: I'm good. I'm good. “Dandy!” That's fancy. There are many questions that we can start with, but I usually like to start with this one. How is your day going so far?
Steve: Can't complain.
Dylan: Okay. Steve, in only as many details as you want to share on this podcast, tell me about you.
Steve: I listen to a lot of podcasts.
Dylan: Great.
Steve: I have been since the medium was young.
Dylan: Really?
Steve: I've hosted a few. Currently, I host a fan podcast about a comedian no one has heard of.
Dylan: That's amazing. Who's the comedian?
Steve: Joe Matarese.
Dylan: I don't know Joe Matarese.
Steve: You must not be an America's Got Talent deep-diver.
Dylan: You host a podcast about Joe Matarese.
Steve: I co-host a podcast about Joe Matarese. It's me and his solitary real fan.
Dylan: Great.
Steve: I would count myself more as an ironic fantastic...
Dylan: Wonderful.
Steve: ... whereas Karen from Philly is very down for the cause.
Dylan: Wait, I love this. You and another fan of this America's Got Talent comedian banded together, and you said, "We're going to start a fan podcast"?
Steve: No. She started it because it's been a long obsession of hers.
Dylan: Oh my god.
Steve: I was a recurring guest, and then I became hooked on Joe's antics. Then there was this documentary called An Inconvenient Goof all about Joe's life.
Dylan: How wonderful. Held to the same esteem as An Inconvenient Truth, right?
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Yes.
Steve: Exactly.
Dylan: Yeah. Yeah. Oscar-winning documentary. Yes. I love. Well, you are not a fan of this podcast, and that is totally okay. I affirm you in all of your opinions and beliefs. I've known you for only a few minutes. I think you're a great person. But Steve, you tweeted, "I listen to shitty podcasts, too many, tbh, but for some reason, I just can't get conversations with people who hate me out of my fucking head. It's so bad for a host of reasons, and yet the New York Times thinks this is advancing the dialogue, such a masturbatory and flawed concept." Steve, you are on the podcast that is a masturbatory and flawed concept. I really mean this respectfully, out of true curiosity, but what don't you love about the show?
Steve: So, let me start by saying I don't hate you.
Dylan: Okay. Great. The title is meant somewhat ironically, because it's more about the fact that when we read negativity about ourselves or our work on the internet, it feels like hate. I got the sense from the way we're talking that you're not burning with a rage of hate for me. I understand that.
Steve: Okay. Then I feel that it kind of feels like you're promising a fight in the title. Conversations with People Who Hate Me implies that there's going to be a conflict, just by the nature of its title, and then you listen, and it's kind of a love fest.
Dylan: (Laughs) Does that-- Do you not like the love fest aspect of it?
Steve: I don't mind it. I would rather that. But then also, I listened to the first episode where you're talking to...
Dylan: Chris.
Steve: Okay. Chris. Yeah. I don't remember the guy's name. He didn't like you for a host of reasons, and it just kind of felt like you were reciting talking points to one another for most of the stuff. Then at the beginning you said you weren't going to talk about politics, and you wound up talking about politics. The fact that you said that you weren't going to talk about politics kept me listening because I generally will tune that sort of stuff out because I'm at work and there's an audience and I don't want to... You know?
Dylan: Mm-hmm
Steve: Generally, when I'm listening to the podcast I'm at work in some capacity. I try to keep politics out of it as much as I can. Then you're responding to each other's memes as imagined in your heads.
Dylan: You felt that the first episode was just distilled talking points of each side?
Steve: Right.
Dylan: Right.
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Then one thing, and I will clarify this for sure and go back and listen, I don't know if I said it wasn't meant to be a political podcast. I think what I said was that it's not a debate show. I think the show inherently gets political sometimes just because that that is sometimes the basis of the disagreement, but either way. You weren't a fan of the first episode, and you listened to the second episode?
Steve: I listened to the half episode. What's the one that's only a couple minutes long and it's a lot of clips?
Dylan: Just the teaser to announce that it was a podcast.
Steve: To announce it. Okay. It was like a birth announcement.
Dylan: The basis was you heard the teaser, and you heard the first episode, and you were not a fan.
Steve: Right.
Dylan: Great.
Steve: Not a fan. I felt the show was kind of oversold.
Dylan: Okay.
Steve: The New York Times talked it up, and then I listened to it. It was just pretty much just like listening to any two dudes talk politics, but I also kind of felt like you were doing that thing that folks trick themselves into doing on social media where they think that if they can keep it together while holding a conversation with somebody of opposing beliefs and be civil the entire time, that they've made some sort of great advance when really all you've pretty much done is held a conversation.
Dylan: Well, you haven't listened to beyond the first episode. Right?
Steve: This is correct.
Dylan: Okay. I think, as with many shows, and maybe your podcast as well, but I think there has been an evolution and an exploration of depth. I'm not only speaking to people who politically disagree with me, but sometimes, terrifyingly, people who I'm very politically aligned with who maybe just find me annoying or think I'm the wrong type of liberal and all of that stuff. But I receive your criticism of the first episode sounding like it's just people thinking that because they stayed on the phone with each other, it's, I mean-
Steve: The other-
Dylan: Yeah. You first,
Steve: Sorry. The other thing, and this is kind of a more meta-criticism, but I think it sort of...
Dylan: Go for it.
Steve: ... orients you toward negativity. In order to book the show, you'd have to constantly be on the lookout for people who hate you. I don't understand why I would want to listen to a show where the person is constantly on the lookout for negativity. I don't understand, because we get hate all the time. It's a trans woman and me, a self-described gutter faggot, hosting this show.
Dylan: Wait, wait, wait. We need to pause. That is amazing. You are a self-described gutter faggot?
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: This is wonderful. Okay. Okay. You guys get a lot of hate on your show?
Steve: Constantly. The absolute last thing we would ever do is give these people a bunch of airtime. A lot of them are very attention starved. Yeah.
Dylan: Well, I think in terms of it being a show where I have to always be on the lookout, I truly... Maybe this will sound too gushy to you, but I have a great love for my guests because they're willing to come on the phone with me and have a conversation and turn ourselves from anonymous internet avatars to people. In terms of the starved for attention, I feel like there's a strong enough filtration system where I'm getting people who are interested in having a nuanced conversation, who are willing to be at least a little introspective on the condition that I'll be introspective as well. I think it takes a little more energy than someone who's just looking for quick fame. Also, it's a podcast and not a video where you'll see their face, so I don't know how much like notoriety or attention comes from just being a voice guest on a podcast. There's that, and then also in terms of the idea of always being on the hunt for people who don't like me or people who, quote unquote, hate me, which I've established what that word means and why I use it, but it's... I've evolved the show so now I also moderate conversations between people, so activists, artists, anyone who has ever existed on the internet, just regular old people who have gotten into online negativity with someone else, and I moderate conversations between them, so now the list is kind of growing. You felt that the show was oversold. You remember me saying that the show was not a political show, and then we talked politics in the first episode. You thought we were repeating talking points in the first episode, and you felt (BUH BUH BUH BUH-BUH) that it was just a love fest. Am I missing something?
Steve: Ah (DU BA DOOP DOOP BUH BUH DU BUH BUH) No. I think you pretty much got it.
Dylan: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great. Great. Great. I love going through this list of things that you're not a fan of about the show because now it's almost like you are a vocal manifestation of some of my more negative thoughts about myself, and if I have doubts about this podcast, it's like your voice. Now it feels like, it's lovely, there's there's a human voice to all of my negative (crosstalk) thoughts in my head about the show.
Steve: Yeah. It's got that Midwestern gruff to it with a layer of gay...
Dylan: (laughs) I love. But like in a-
Steve: but with also a millennial snarky.
Dylan: Yes.
Steve: I always sound like I'm a few seconds away from narrating a 9/11 truth documentary. Yeah. I understand. Yeah.
Dylan: Oh my God. I welcome it. It is nice to meet the manifestation of the negative voice in my head. Hello. Wonderful. I'm so glad your name is Steve. Now I have a name for it. But in all seriousness, I don't want to necessarily kind of start defending the show, but I guess are there any questions you have about the show, about production of the show, my intention of the show?
Steve: Let me ask you this.
Dylan: Yeah.
Steve: You said you started moderating conversations between people…
Dylan: Mmm-hmm.
Steve: … so it's not necessarily just about you anymore.
Dylan: Exactly.
Steve: I think that's a good thing because I think that over time, a lot of podcast hosts - and I'm not saying I'm immune to this - become sort of narcissistic. They think the entire world is them and their stuff, so the fact that you're doing things that involve other people to where you don't have to necessarily be super invested is probably a good development. What else has changed since the show started? Because remember, I've listened to nothing.
Dylan: Well, one episode, it's okay, but you can form an opinion at any time. That's, I think, written into the constitution of the internet. How do I think it's evolved? That's a great question. Well, I think I am learning what is most productive for a conversation. I've pinpointed the intention of the show, which is to move an online conversation offline. That's kind of why I was interested in getting to know you. I don't see you as I'm a hater. I don't necessarily feel, especially now talking to you, that you hate me, but it is, I think, soothing to me to be able to talk to you and understand you as a three-dimensional human after having read this tweet. You know?
Steve: Okay.
Dylan: Something you said in your tweet was that you disagreed with this notion that the New York Times praised it for, that it was advancing the dialogue.
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Yeah. You don't think, at least the first episode, the only one you've heard, is advancing the dialogue, right?
Steve: Not really. No.
Dylan: Okay. Great.
Steve: I don't think most things advance the dialogue. I think that sort of gets thrown around, and it gets applied to things like stand-up comedy specials, which are, by their nature, monologues. Yeah. Because it's a really easy sort of non-falsifiable claim, that's something that advancing the dialogue. You can't prove that something's not advancing the dialogue. It's a really easy thing to say and kind of sort of like a nebulous in terms of pinpointing how exactly anything advances the dialogue. You know?
Dylan: I mean I get that. I'm only hoping to put on a platform what conversations through the internet can sound like. What is your take on the way humans communicate in 2018 for the lack of a more nuanced and detailed question?
Steve: I generally find that the most rational normal, to even use the word normal, normal people that I deal with are people who have a very small to low social media footprint.
Dylan: Would you say that you have a small to medium social media footprint?
Steve: Nope.
Dylan: (laughs) Okay. How invested in social media are you?
Steve: Not as much as I used to be. I have put together more of a place lately to only be on my phone at given times, which obviously reduces the amount of just sitting there just scrolling, but I don't really If you want to talk about things that don't advance the dialogue, Twitter's a far worse offender than your show.
Dylan: Than my podcast?
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Okay. Great. Okay. Great.
Steve: Right. Yeah.
Dylan: Well, I'm honored to rank above Twitter as advancing the dialogue. Yeah. I'm totally with you. I think I get fully sucked into notification land. I think also the most egotistical version of myself comes out, and I hate it, where I'm kind of very fascinated by what people are saying about me and my work. I'm really trying to steer clear of going too far down that well of narcissism, and I'm only using that to critique myself, not you, not any listener. But I have found for me that I kind of trip into my own reflection when I'm just searching my name on Twitter. You know what I mean?
Steve: Yes.
Dylan: It's like oof, 'There has to be something healthier than this.' Yeah, I also have been really, really, really trying to reign in my desire to tweet things. I think, like perhaps others, I found myself tweeting about things that I wasn't an expert on and just being like, "Yep, I'm going to hurl myself into this conversation that no one asked me to be part of." You know? I'm trying to do that and I hope getting better at it. But you said you got better at not overdoing social media. How were you using social media before?
[BREAK]
Dylan: How were you using social media before?
Steve: I used to be on Facebook a lot. If you want to make drugs comparisons in terms of harm, I feel that Facebook would be closer to math, whereas Twitter would be closer to crack.
Dylan: Whoa.
Steve: You could do crack for a good number of years, and it'll age you, it'll be awful for you, but you'll be alive. Whereas with meth, there's a real shorter leash.
Dylan: Why do you think Facebook is so bad for your mental health?
Steve: Just I think the way the algorithm is set up and the way that it... With Twitter's muting phrases, it's a lot easier to not get sucked into certain topics. My list of muted phrases is pretty long, and it moves a lot of frequent news events that I know I'm not going to react positively to. A lot of key phrases that people use, a lot of key spellings of words that people use on the internet to signal things one way or the other, they're all muted, so you never ever, ever see them. Whereas on Facebook, you can't do that. They're trying to... I'm not a huge fan of using the word. They're trying to trigger you. It's a bait, and I feel it's a little less blatant on Twitter. It's bad, but not as.
Dylan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Twitter is your drug of choice when it comes to social media?
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Okay. Great. Now we're kind of veering into the topic of kind of the internet and the harm the internet has. I think what I'm also trying to do with this podcast is create a little spot of hope on the internet. I don't know if that made you totally vomit in your mouth for the fact that I even said that, and that's okay if it did, but what are your thoughts? Do you think that the internet is a hopeless place? You described yourself as a gutter faggot, so I don't know if the internet is itself the gutter in your mind. Tell me. Illuminate it for me.
Steve: Yeah. It kind of is a gutter. Was that the plan all along, to create a little wellspring of hope?
Dylan: Well, I think our psychology is just different if we got into a comment section war with each other, where we were just trying to dunk on the other and trying to totally own the other, in those terms that we use for social media dialogue, but I just think it's what one thinks that they would do if they were face to face with someone or voice to voice with someone on a call is just so different than what actually happens. I understand that you're staying true to the fact that you're not a fan of this podcast, but I also think that we have to even admit that it is playing, "Well, now..." in the sense that talking to you is a much more lovely experience than just reading that you can't get my podcast out of your, quote, your fucking head. Do you know what I mean?
Steve: Right. But again, you're having a conversation with somebody who doesn't hate you.
Dylan: Right. That's something that is important to establish about this show, that it is not people who are raging at and hate me, but it is people who have written things that I think are negative or mean. But my mind, and I think many of our minds, read negativity is hate on the internet. If you disagree with that explanation for why I have the word hate in the title, that's totally fine, but that's why I use the word.
Steve: Yeah. I think it's kind of like-- I remember when I saw the name of the show. I was like, "Dude, how many fucking enemies does this guy have? (CROSSTALK DYLAN: RIGHT RIGHT) Where are you going to find all these people that constantly hate you?" The answer is, "You kind of don't."
Dylan: But to give you a bigger sense, I will tell you that when you're receiving even... I think at the time it was about 10 messages a day of people ranging from calling me a faggot to calling me a fucking SJW snowflake to fellow lefties-
Steve: Yeah. Tuesday. Right. Yeah.
Dylan: Yeah. To fellow lefties calling, saying I'm doing liberalism wrong, is that it really does feel like hate, and it's so overwhelming. That is the experience of the intranet, I think, for so many people. The purpose of the podcast is not to convert people. Do you know what I mean? Because I understand that in the course of a phone call I cannot change someone's mind radically. In the course of this phone call, for example, I don't think you're going to leave being like, "You know what? I think this show is amazing, and I think this show is advancing the dialogue," and that's okay. It's more just about-
Steve: Well, no one ever liked anything because someone explained to you after you hated it that it's absolutely good.
Dylan: Exactly. Exactly. It's like, "No, no, no. Steve, let me explain to you. This is why you actually love this podcast, and this phone call is going to end with you and I prancing off into a rainbow."
Steve: Gently writing my five-star review.
Dylan: (laughs) Yes, yes, yes. The thing is I welcome you to continue to critique the show as much as you want, as vocally as you want. It's just it is nicer to me-
Steve: Eh I got it all out in May, I'd say.
Dylan: Okay. Great. That is itself the whole point of this podcast. I like speaking to people better than I like reading the shorter distilled, nastier versions of what they think, whereas you telling me what you don't like about this podcast is so much more constructive than it is to read your tweet, for example. I think there's a discrepancy with, I'm including myself in this, how humans write on the internet and how they speak to each other when they're not on the internet. I'm interested -- to not sound too academic, but I'm interested in exploring that in-between space. You know?
Steve: Do you think that idea will sound ridiculous to anyone born after 1999?
Dylan: Meaning do I think that this is a ridiculous idea for the younger set?
Steve: Yeah. Again, generalizing, but I really feel that there's less of a gap between the way people talk online and the way people talk offline with people that never lived in an era where they didn't have the internet. I notice it with my nephews and nieces and... Yeah.
Dylan: Wait. Just give me an example, truly out of just curiosity.
Steve: They use abbreviations.
Dylan: Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. They'll tell you exactly what they think in real time, similar to how I do with your show, (laughs) and yeah, they kind of talk in internet comments.
Dylan: I totally get that, but I think what you're bringing up is lingo and speech patterns. What I'm more talking about is the inevitability that speaking face to face to a human that you have decided to have consented to speaking to, I think, is a different experience than engaging with a tweet in your mind and that tweet then forming this whole other life in your mind. Do you know what I mean?
Steve: Well, of course. Yeah. But everybody knows that.
Dylan: Well, I forget that sometimes. I think there are days, maybe my more isolating days, where most of the, quote unquote, voices that I'm engaging with are just voices of people that I scroll past. As I scroll past them, I'm projecting onto them who I think they are.
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Do you do the same?
Steve: Yeah. I think that happens on the internet. I think that happens in real life, and that's the scary part...
Dylan: Yeah. As we pass people.
Steve: ... is you walk directly past people...
Dylan: Totally.
Steve: ... say shit.
Dylan: Yeah.
Steve: Yeah. Exactly.
Dylan: It's the same psychology of walking in a busy train station and you pass thousands of people, hundreds of people. I just see this as tapping one of them to ask if they want to have a conversation. The internet is just a massive train station where everyone's just walking all the time and you're projecting onto them. I do love the internet, I appreciate the internet, but I still think it's healthy to move conversations offline sometimes. That's okay if you don't find that--
Steve: That's why I record them and put them online.
Dylan: Yeah. I mean, you're an adult who's consenting to being recorded right now.
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Do you know what I mean?
Steve: No, I understand that. Yes. We need to have more conversations offline. That's why I have conversations online. That's basically what you just said. It's just funny. It's a funny thought. I'm not saying like I-
Dylan: Totally. Yes, we are using technology afforded through the internet. I just mean we are moving off of social media and now talking voice to voice. But listen, Steve, you're not a fan of the show, and maybe you're not a huge fan of me. (laughs) That's totally fine.
Steve: No. No, I'm a fan of you, I'd say.
Dylan: Okay. Great. Well, I'm a fan of you. Look at us. You bristle at the idea that my podcast is perhaps a spot of hope on the internet, or at least that that's my intention. You're not-- you -- I--
Steve: Well, comparatively, it's a spot of hope, but what does that really say? You know?
Dylan: I don't know. What I'm reading from you is you're really not a fan of me saying that, that I see it as a spot of hope, and I'm just curious to hear why.
Steve: Yeah. Again, I think you're sort of over-- Again I think you're sort of making too much of it. You should just maybe present them just as talks and you're two folks having a conversation...
Dylan: Yeah. Well, but it started with negativity.
Steve: ... instead of wrapping it in all this wellspring of hope, advancing the dialogue. I feel that you're kind of building things up in a certain way when you say it that way, if you get what I mean.
Dylan: Well, sure. I also think it's healthy to have a big and hearty aim for what you want to do, and it's okay if you fall short for it. Do you articulate or identify the goal that you have with your podcast?
Steve: Yeah, to be the number one news source for Joe Matarese content anywhere on the internet.
Dylan: Okay. Great.
Steve: Then we did it. We're number one.
Dylan: Well, not to identify it, but I also think that there's maybe a difference in the kind of entertainment that you and I value, and that's great. That's lovely. But I think that judging from the show that you make and perhaps from the things that you like, I think there is a healthy dose of irony. Yeah, an ironic quality that you like with the work you do. Maybe there's something a little too kind of gratingly earnest about to you about me saying that I see it as a spot of hope. Do you know what I mean?
Steve: Yeah. The spot of hope doesn't bother me as much as the advancing the dialogue. That one actually did make me vomit in my mouth.
Dylan: Have I ever said that I wanted to advance the dialogue?
Steve: No. I think the New York Times said that and-
Dylan: Let's just at least fact check this, New York Times, and truly not to pull one on you. New York Times, Dylan Marron-
Steve: I might be fake news. I'm totally willing to say that. Yes.
Dylan: No, that's okay. Okay. So--
Steve: Because I probably would have quoted advancing the dialogue if it actually said that. That might be my own characterization.
Dylan: In your tweet you quoted advancing the dialogue. There have been two New York Times pieces about me. Okay. The first, the interview that I did, they do not say advancing the dialogue, but I'm scanning through it to give you all the benefits of all the doubt to make sure maybe perhaps I said something that you hate equally as much as me saying-
Steve: Yeah. No, if you could just do a quick scan through for anything throughout-
Dylan: I'm doing a scan…
Steve: -you think would make me make the jerk off symbol with my hand.
Dylan: Okay. Well, I said, "Just because someone says something outrageously mean to you online doesn't mean they're sad and lonely. I wanted to go towards these messages rather than run away from them." How does that sit with you?
Steve: That's fine.
Dylan: Okay. Great. Okay. Let's go to the second Time's piece. I'm really holding out hope that somewhere I said advancing the dialogue or they said it, so pulling up the second article, advancing. Okay. There's no advancing the dialogue in the second one. But again, I'm going to do a scan for you with the hope that I said something that makes your eyes roll. Okay. Maybe this is it. "For Mr. Marron at least, it's easier to change hearts than minds." Then it ends.
Steve: Yeah. There we go.
Dylan: Okay. Maybe that's what made your eyes roll. Then it quotes what a guest said to me, which is, "You know, you are helping me listen more, and I think listening is productive." Maybe that was something that you didn't love?
Steve: That's possible as well. Yeah.
Dylan: Okay. Great. The Times did not say I was advancing-
Steve: But oversold by both the title and potentially the New York Times. I found what the New York Times was saying about the show was a lot worse than what you were saying about the show.
Dylan: We have at least proved that the Times never said that I was advancing the dialogue, nor did I say I was advancing the dialogue, but I invite you to imagine me saying that I'm advancing the dialogue.
Steve: It's also possible I got that from iTunes reviews, because I can almost definitely assure you that that's said in iTunes reviews.
Dylan: But I think that is a perfect encapsulation of the internet. You know what I mean?
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: I think confusing an iTunes review with a New York times article is-
Steve: That's an allegory.
Dylan: It's an allegory. It's a great allegory. Well, Steve, I have enjoyed talking to you. I don't think I have a new fan on the podcast, but at least I know you exist. I've had a really nice time talking to you. Maybe you've had the same. Maybe you feel that this conversation is helpful, or do you feel like this conversation was a waste of time?
Steve: No. It was fine.
Dylan: Okay, great. Wonderful.
Steve: Yeah.
Dylan: Fine. I love it. That is your view. Our conversation was fine.
Steve: It was fine. Yeah.
Dylan: Well, like I promised in our pre-call, I wanted to check in. Do you feel comfortable with this moving forward as an episode, or how do you feel?
Steve: Yeah, it was fine.
Dylan: Okay, great. You're okay with this turning into an episode?
Steve: Yeah, it's cool.
Dylan: Okay. Wonderful. Well, I guess, with that being said, Steve, I'm signing off, but I will see you on the internet. And you're welcome to let me know if you're not a fan of my podcast in the future.
Steve: All right. Cool. Sounds like a plan.
Dylan: (LAUGHTER) Okay. Sounds good. Bye, Steve.
Steve: Yep. Later.
[Phone call ends with a hang up sound. The drumbeat from ‘These Dark Times’ by Caged Animals kicks in.]
Dylan [VOICEOVER CLOSING CREDITS]: If you'd like to be a guest on this show and take your own online conversation and move it offline, please visit www.conversationswithpeoplewhohateme.com for more information.
Conversations with People Who Hate Me is a production of Night Vale presents. Vincent Cacchione is the sound engineer and mixer. Christy Gressman is the executive producer. The theme song is These Dark Times by Caged Animals. The logo was designed by Rob Wilson. This podcast was created, produced, and hosted by me, Dylan Marron.
Special thanks to Adam Cecil, Emily Moler, and our publicist, Megan Larson.
We'll be releasing episodes every other week, so I'll see you in two weeks with a brand new conversation. Until then, remember, there's a human on the other side of the screen.
[Chorus of ‘These Darks Times’ by Caged Animals plays.]