EPISODE 15: TEENS & GUNS
Sarah: I've had some people accuse me of being a crisis actor.
Dylan: Really?
Sarah: Yeah, there's that. I promise I'm not a crisis actor though.
Dylan: You're doing a great method job of being a crisis actor right now.
Sarah: Thank you. Where's my Tony?
[Instrumental of ‘These Dark Times’ by Caged Animals begins to play.]
Dylan [VOICEOVER INTRODUCTION]: Hey, I'm Dylan Marron and this is Conversations with People Who Hate Me, the show where I take negative online conversations and move them offline. Sometimes I speak one on one to people who said not so nice things about me on the internet and other times, I moderate conversations between people who have gotten into it with each other.
Today, I'm doing something a little different. I'm hosting a conversation about a topic. Now neither of my guests have written anything negative about each other online, but they do come from very different positions on a certain issue: guns. Also, because it seems like teens are leading the conversation about gun control, both of my guests are teenagers themselves.
My first guest is Sarah and my second guest is Josh, who listeners of this show may remember from episode two. First, I'll speak one on one to each of them and then we'll get on a call together. Here is Sarah.
[Music fades.]
Dylan: Hi, Sarah. How are you?
Sarah: Hi, Dylan. I'm good. How are you?
Dylan: I'm good. Look at our very official tone. How's your day going?
Sarah: I'm a high school student, so I woke up, I went to school, I did my homework and now I'm here.
Dylan: Check you out. So this means you're a senior right now, right?
Sarah: Yeah, I'm a second semester senior, so thankfully the workload isn't too bad.
Dylan: Oh my God. Are you just fully checked out?
Sarah: Not totally. I do want to pass all my classes.
Dylan: Listen, that's a noble goal. I'm proud of you.
Sarah: Thank you.
Dylan: How has high school been for you?
Sarah: High school's been pretty good. It's had its ups and its downs. I think I've grown a lot as a person, as anyone does in these four years and I spent a lot of it doing activism, especially this year.
Dylan: And what kind of activism were you doing?
Sarah: It started out that I was the president of my school's Equality Alliance for almost my entire high school career. I myself, identify as a lesbian and I came into high school not really knowing any other queer people and I wanted to make sure that no one else had to feel that alone and I wanted to make sure that queer people, myself included, had a very visible presence in my community. I've also been writing. I work with a nonprofit that helps provide sex education training to teachers across the country. I was in debate club and then after the shooting in Parkland, Florida, I became very involved with my state chapter of March for Our Lives.
Dylan: So tell me a little about that.
Sarah: Well, I found out about the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland while I was in school. Compared to other mass shootings, this one was extremely well documented in the sense that I knew it was happening as it was happening. I saw kids quite literally, live tweeting the deaths. So it all very immediate and very powerful. We had a discussion in my civics class about what we think would come of it and most of us, even those who are very politically active and very on the left were saying, "Oh, you know, unfortunately, this is probably going to blow over in a week and we're going to go back to being apathetic." Then that didn't happen and, me along with the rest of the country, saw the amazing kids in Parkland rise up and create this incredible movement. As someone who has always just wanted to get involved and help in whatever way I can, I knew, "Okay, this is where I am needed ." Because this isn't about me necessarily. Again, I haven't been personally affected by gun violence, but it's about where I'm needed and where I can be the most help.
Dylan: So have guns ever been a part of your life?
Sarah: No, not particularly. At the same time, I grew up in the post-Columbine generation. I was born the year after that happened, so I've had lock downs for as long as I can remember. I remember exactly where I was during the Sandy Hook shooting and how afraid it made us. While I don't live in a town where there's a lot of guns or gun violence or anything related to that, we've all kind of grown up in this gun culture where we're all a little bit traumatized and a little bit on edge, always freaked out if where we go, we're going to get shot or blown up.
Dylan: And this is not to second guess you, but true curiosity, but do you live with that fear?
Sarah: I'm a very anxious person, so I do live with that fear.
Dylan: I’m--Welcome to it. I am anxious, too.
Sarah: I just tell myself that it's probably not going to happen and thankfully again, I live in a community where statistically, that's right. It's not going to happen to me, but just because it doesn't happening to me, doesn't mean that it's not an important issue.
Dylan: Have you gotten pushback for your activism work specifically, your activist work around guns?
Sarah: Oh, absolutely. I didn't expect it from my peers, especially because as I said, there aren't many gun owners where I'm from, but I was part of my school's walk out and I got a lot of hate for that because I spoke at that. I've had people tell me that I'm stupid, that I'm just a kid. I've had a lot of adults patronizing me and telling me, "Oh, go read a Constitution." I mean, nevermind that I'm in AP gov and civics class that I've read the Constitution. Everyone's just kind of talking down to me, assuming that because I'm young, I'm incapable or I'm less smart. I've had some people accuse me of being a crisis actor.
Dylan: Really?
Sarah: Yeah, there's that. I promise I'm not a crisis actor though.
Dylan: You're doing a great method job of being a crisis actor right now.
Sarah: Thank you. Where's my Tony?
Dylan: Yes, yes, yes. You're going to win your Tony right after this.
Sarah: So excited.
Dylan: Do you feel kind of dismissed?
Sarah: I feel dismissed, but I try not to take it personally because again, it's not my fault that they're just going to discredit anyone under a certain age as if when you turn 21, you automatically become smarter or more educated.
Dylan: Sarah, I'm about to connect you with a guy named Josh and listeners of this show will remember him from episode two. This is a different kind of episode, right? This is not necessarily that Josh has written something negative to or about you on the internet, but it is a former guest and it is a current activist on the phone together. How are you feeling about talking to a fellow teenager who sees this issue of gun control very differently from you?
Sarah: It's definitely a little bit more exciting and I come on to this phone call or this show with a little bit less dread knowing that I won't be talked down to and that there's actually a chance that the person that I'm talking to will listen to me or at least not discredit me on the basis that I'm 18.
Dylan: So Sarah, just hold tight because I'm about to go speak to Josh. So just hang tight.
Sarah: All right, sounds good to me.
[Solo conversation ends. Phone rings. Second guest picks up.]
Josh: Hello.
Dylan: Hey, Josh. I haven't talked to you in a while. How are you?
Josh: I'm doing good. How are you?
Dylan: I'm good. I'm good. How have you been since we last spoke?
Josh: I'm doing good.
Dylan: Yeah?
Josh: Focusing on myself for awhile, looking for a job, going to school full time.
Dylan: Oh, you just had a final, right?
Josh: Yeah, my finals were last week.
Dylan: Oh, how'd they go?
Josh: Aced them all.
Dylan: Oh my God, Josh. That's amazing.
Josh: It was nothing.
Dylan: Not a big deal. Are you a good student? Because I wasn't a good student at all.
Josh: I like to talk a lot. Take that as you will.
Dylan: You like to talk a lot? What does that mean?
Josh: That means I listen, but I also want to be the one listened to.
Dylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I got that.
Josh: I know the information, but I want to be center stage.
Dylan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you and I have exchanged some messages since we last spoke on the phone and since our podcast episode was released. You mentioned that you feel a certain way about the debate about gun control that's going on in the country. Can you expand on that a little more for me?
Josh: Well, with how I was raised and where I live, gun control, we find it that it's not the problem and everyone's heard the cliche, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
Dylan: Uh-huh.
Josh: ... which I believe wholeheartedly.
Dylan: In the place you're from, are guns a big part of the culture?
Josh: Yes, definitely. A lot of my family and friends around here, we use guns for hunting and for games. I used to play air soft with my neighbors and all that growing up. Guns are also used to protect ourselves from people out there that have guns that use them for different reasons than we do.
Dylan: Right. So the shooting in Parkland at the high school has launched a national debate about gun control and we've seen a lot of teenage activists rise up to the podium to talk about gun control. What is it like to see teenagers, people your age leading the discussion in the way they are?
Josh: Well, the way I see it, I think it's great that teenagers are trying to get out there and make a name for themselves because we are the future. That's definitely true, but I'm not saying anything bad about what these kids went through at Parkland specifically-
Dylan: Uh-huh.
Josh: ... but because they went through a school shooting, which is awful, and I pray for them all the time--
Dylan: Uh-huh.
Josh: ... that doesn't make them an expert on guns. I think that they mean well, but they're not going about it the right way because they don't have the knowledge on it.
Dylan: You also told me that you've posted some things online about, some negative things online about your feelings about the gun debate. Do you remember what some of those are?
Josh: I wouldn't say they were negative about people. The message that I originally sent you wasn't negative about you. I didn't go that far because I kind of learned my lesson from that.
Dylan: Learned what lesson?
Josh: Not to say rude things online because people will notice even if you don't think they will.
Dylan: That's so interesting. What has changed for you since our podcast episode came out?
Josh: No matter how big or small someone is online, they're going to see what you write. You might as well watch what you write.
Dylan: Yeah. No, I think because the spotlight at least a lot of the way the story is presented, it seems like teenagers are in a large part, students, teen students and you are one of them, are kind of this united front in one side in the discussion about gun control. But you are a teenager who does not necessarily agree with them. Do you feel that your voice is not represented in the discussion on gun control debate?
Josh: I wholeheartedly believe that because if you don't agree with the teens that are in the spotlight, then your opinion is shut out. You're wrong. You're a terrible person. If I don't agree with what they have to say, that makes me an awful person for disagreeing with someone that went through a school shooting.
Dylan: Who do you feel that that's coming from, saying that you're an awful person?
Josh: I've had discussions with other people from my area about that, adults, people who support the March for Our Lives, support the gun control, that if you don't agree with them, they can't have a civilized conversation. You're just wrong and you're a terrible person just because I disagree with them.
Dylan: How do you see something like March for Our Lives?
Josh: Probably get a lot of hate for this, but I see it as pointless.
Dylan: Why?
Josh: I just think that they're putting these kids on a pedestal, giving them complete power and they don't know what they're doing. I will admit, they have a lot more knowledge than I do. I'll admit that, but I don't think their knowledge is correct.
Dylan: Well, what do you mean by that?
Josh: I'm not going to stand here and say that I know 100% every single thing about guns or I know 100% about these March for Our Lives, but I think what I do know about guns and gun control is at least correct or in some way correct.
Dylan: I mean, have you ever, and I hope the answer is no, but have you known anyone who's been a victim or survivor of gun violence?
Josh: Not personally, no.
Dylan: So you are soon going to speak to a fellow teenager who organized one of the many March for Our Lives that happened recently. How are you feeling about speaking to her?
Josh: Kind of nervous, just because even though I know this is going to be civilized, not a debate, it was just to be talking back and forth.
Dylan: Mm-hmm.
Josh: I do believe that things could possibly get heated depending on where she stands. If she has personal experience in this or whatever, because if she knows someone that's gone through this, then it's going to be a lot more of a personal issue for her than it is for me.
Dylan: Well, a discussion will be interesting either way. This is a topic that everyone seems to chime in on whether they've had close personal experience with it or not.
Josh: Yeah.
Dylan: Yeah. Okay, great. Josh, it's great to talk to you on the phone again. It feels like a nice little throwback for us.
Josh: Yeah.
Dylan: I'll talk to you real soon.
Josh: That sounds good.
[Phone rings. Guest picks up.]
Josh: Hello?
Sarah: Hi, Josh.
[BREAK]
Josh: Hello?
Dylan: Hey Josh, how are you? It's Dylan and I'm on the phone with Sarah as well.
Josh: Hi.
Sarah: Hi.
Dylan: So Sarah, why don't you kick us off? Tell Josh a little about you.
Sarah: All right. Well, hi Josh. I'm Sarah. I'm a senior in high school and I'm about to go to college in the fall probably for journalism or something like that. I'm pretty big in terms of activism and I definitely lean left. I was a local leader for my school walkout and for my state's official March for Our Lives.
Josh: That's awesome.
Dylan: Yeah. Josh, take it away. Tell Sarah about you.
Josh: Well, I'm 19, just finished my first year in college, going for hotel and restaurant management. I am currently sitting in my living room with my dog playing Fortnite.
Dylan: Amazing.
Josh: I can't say... I do lean right, but I can't say that I'm as involved with it as you are. I do have my values on it, but I don't actively go out and support or against something. I try and stick to myself most of the time.
Dylan: Uh-huh. That's great. Thank you both for sharing. The reason I specifically wanted to get the two of you on the phone together is that, it feels like in this current moment, teenagers are leading the conversation about guns, but you're both teenagers and maybe not all teenagers feel that they're part of the conversation or feel that they're represented. So first to kind of just start us off, let's start here. Josh, there's a big movement in this country happening right now, the March for Our Lives movement, right? Teenagers who are walking out of schools and kind of taking a stand to promote stricter gun laws. What is your general take on that movement?
Josh: I'm going to sound bad, but I kind of find it annoying somewhat.
Dylan: Why annoying?
Josh: Well, when it comes to the school walkouts, I think it's kind of dumb. I don't see the point in it. All it's doing is really taking away time from education, which in my viewpoint, that each kid that walked out should be considered truant for that day.
Dylan: Sarah, you helped organize your school's walk out. Why a walkout?
Sarah: Well, a walkout specifically is because we aren't just randomly yelling and screaming. We're looking at the history of this country and what works and what's effective. To have an effective means of protest, you need something that's relevant. So for example, when black people were fighting for their rights in the civil rights era and there was segregation and they weren't allowed to eat at certain restaurants, they would have sit-ins in those restaurants to protest the fact that they were not allowed there because of their race. So school walkouts for this specifically, seemed appropriate because it's an issue that in this case or in this context, is affecting students since Parkland. And because we're talking about how it affects students in schools, then it should be something that happens at a school or in a school because we want to focus the narrative on students. And, in terms of a walkout as opposed to some other school event, again, it also boils down to effective means of protest and effecting change. You need something that's relatively easy to organize, something that is relatively safe, something that a lot of people can do and they wanted to launch this national movement and a national school walkout checked off all those boxes and promotes a discussion to make sure that it doesn't fade because as long as it doesn't fade from our consciousness and from the media, we won't get lost in the noise and we can hopefully have a better chance at making real change.
Josh: Could I ask something just because it's something that I don't understand?
Dylan: Yeah, please.
Josh: Why do you think it's okay for students to just walk out of school during class? There are some schools that support it and I understand that, but what makes it okay to just walk out of class? Because if I did that two years ago when I was in high school, I would've been suspended.
Sarah: What do you mean by makes it okay? Like morally justifiable?
Josh: Yeah. They're supposed to be set rules in school and I'm pretty sure one of them is don't walk out of class.
Sarah: That's definitely a rule. The point of protest is to kind of make a disruption. I guess what makes it more justifiable aside from the fact that we're doing it for good reason, you know, we're not doing it because we want to go outside and get fresh air. We're doing it because we believe it is within our first amendment rights and we believe that it's important to speak up about this. It's important that this disrupts our normal day because it should because we cannot remain apathetic to this issue. When you do things like a walkout or a sit-in peaceful protest, part of civil disobedience is accepting reasonable punishment for your actions. So if you're going to do something wrong such as a walkout and you're not willing to accept a reasonable punishment such as detention, then I think that's kind of misunderstanding the point of this protest. But yeah, I believe that part of civil disobedience and things like this is understanding you might get punished, accepting the punishment and doing so with love.
Dylan: The conversation around guns is largely focused on teenagers right now. You're both teenagers and we're talking about guns. So I wanted to know from each of you, anyone can go first, but how does it feel to be a teenager right now amidst this discussion?
Josh: Ladies first.
Sarah: Oh, okay. Oh, is that me? Oh, sorry. I didn't hear what he said at first. Thank you, very chivalrous.
Dylan: Chivalrous, here we are.
Sarah: As a teenager, a lot of people are invalidating what I'm saying and there are so many adults who have read my articles because I write, or see my activism and have said, "Oh, this is just some stupid little kid and she doesn't know what she's talking about." Meanwhile, Josh, you're I think, a year-ish older than me and when they see young people like you who are more favorable towards guns and the NRA, they say, "Oh, that's responsible. That's smart. That's how kids should be." I think that there's this hypocrisy in that kids place in politics and in our society is dependent upon whether you, not you personally, but the collective view agrees with them.
Josh: I would love to read your article sometime because I really, to be honest, I might disagree with you on couple of things, but you sound like one of the most intelligent people I know. But one thing that you did just say, I completely disagree with, that you said that media and people in general agree with teenagers of my side of the view, my pro-gun. I think that's completely false because if you go on any media station, YouTube, most teenagers you will see is teenagers talking about how they're against guns. If you're pro-gun then you're a bad person right now, in this day and age. I've been ridiculed for being pro-gun. I've actually been called a murderer before because I'm pro-gun.
Sarah: I'm sorry you've been called a murderer. I think you slightly misinterpreted what I said. I didn't necessarily say the media is supportive of kids who are "pro-gun." I just said certain people that I've gotten criticism from. In terms of media coverage, I would say it's a fair point that students in the March for Our Lives movement are getting more media coverage than students who are against it. Although, I don't necessarily think that the reason of that is because of media bias. I think it's because they are showing up in numbers and they are doing things like the March for Our Lives, like the national school walkout, things that are newsworthy and they're quite frankly, as an organization, just being more effective as activists than are some people on the other side right now because I haven't seen any large scale marches pro-the NRA. I haven't seen any particularly large school walkouts that are pro-NRA and if there were ones of similar caliber, then I think they would get just as much news coverage.
Josh: Do you think they would deserve it?
Sarah: Do I do I think they deserve it?
Josh: Yeah. If there were a NRA March for Our Lives, walkout or whatever, would they deserve as just as much news coverage as the others have gotten?
Sarah: Well, as someone going into this field, I'd say absolutely because news isn't supposed to be biased and if there's a big event happening, whether you agree with it or disagree with it, it deserves news coverage.
Josh: But you don't think the media is biased, though, at the moment?
Sarah: I think that, I mean, we're all people and therefore, because reporters are people, we all have our own biases. I'd say that definitively there are some media stations that lean left, some media stations that lean right. I would say as a whole, not necessarily biased, it's just individual companies with their individual bias.
Dylan: Sarah, you were saying that you feel dismissed sometimes by people who are like, "Oh, what does she know?" Right?
Sarah: Absolutely.
Dylan: And Josh, you were saying that you feel dismissed sometimes by people who just call you a murderer. You feel, what was the word you used? Vilified. Right?
Sarah: Yeah.
Dylan: But that's interesting too that it's like those are your perceptions of how you're treated by the "other side." Right? But it's a little different when you actually get on the phone with someone who disagrees. Do you know what I mean?
Josh: Yeah. I like Sarah a lot more than I like some people that agree with me because they agree with me, but they don't know what they're talking about. They can't have a conversation. Sarah, she's nice and she can back up what she's saying.
Sarah: I just wanted to say that I really appreciate talking to you and I want to gush about you a bit too because you're intelligent. You're backing up what you're saying. You're in no way saying it with hatred and in terms of having productive conversation, we shouldn't just be loyal to people or twist a certain side. We have to recognize these things have nuance and that every person's opinion probably has something behind it because if they didn't, then there wouldn't be so many people that feel that way. Yeah.
Dylan: I guess one of my closing questions for both of you is, what are each of your takeaways from this call?
Josh: That Sarah's going to be the next president
Dylan: Sarah. Check you out. Oh my God.
Sarah: Thank you.
Josh: To add on to that, I think as our calls have proved, that just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you can't be civil. It doesn't mean you can't even like each other. I like Sarah, she seems like an awesome person. We just have different views, but that doesn't mean we can't get along. It doesn't mean that we're mortal enemies. It just means that we don't believe the same thing.
Dylan: Yeah, and Sarah, what is your takeaway from this call?
Sarah: It gives me hope and it kind of makes me feel like change will happen because change happens when people have discussions and no matter how you think we're going to get to that change, it's happening and it gives me hope specifically, that this isn't just a private conversation. This is going to be broadcasted. This is going to be listened to by a lot of other people. So it gives me hope that other people can hopefully learn from this conversation to have similar conversations and learn how to be better, more active citizens.
Dylan: That's amazing. I think that's a perfect closing point. Are there any final things that you both want to say to each other?
Sarah: Josh, you're a sweetheart. Thank you so much for talking to me.
Josh: Oh, I enjoyed it. It was amazing and like I said, I think if we knew each other in real life that I think we would've gotten along.
Sarah: I think we would have played like Fallout together.
Josh: Probably.
Dylan: Yeah.
Josh: You have my vote in the 2020 election.
Dylan: Yeah. Sarah's just going to run for president right now. She's mounting her campaign as we speak.
Sarah: It was all conspiracy.
Josh: You’ve got what, a year and a half, two years to plan for it.
Dylan: Yeah. All right. Two and a half years-
Josh: And if she's not running, then I'm going to be disappointed.
Dylan: For president?
Josh: Have you never read a good president book? He made it happen.
Dylan: I just want to say that I truly love that we are ending this call as if we are like fully and honestly considering the fact that an 18 year old named Sarah is going to be running for the 2020 presidential election, but I think that, Josh, that is a perfect way to close out this call because it feels like there's a real sense of hope there.
Sarah: Can I actually say just one thing really quick about that cause I actually wanted to say real quick to Josh that, I mean, right now I'm going to be moving away to college soon so like I can't necessarily do this. I don't know what your life situation is like, but seriously run for office. It isn't just president. Run for your local board of education because you know you were just recently a student, you know what it was like there. Run for mayor, run for freeholder. There's a lot of local elections coming up in 2018 and you're intelligent, you're well-spoken, you're involved in politics in one way you can absolutely get involved is by literally running for local office and I think you should.
Dylan: Well, it is very inspiring to hear this conversation. Thank you both for being a part of it. And Josh, Sarah, we'll see each other on the internet and I hope you have really good days. Okay?
Josh: You as well.
Sarah: You guys, too. Thank you.
Dylan: Okay, bye guys.
Sarah: Bye.
[Phone call ends.]
Dylan [VOICEOVER]: Normally, the episode ends here, but this call was recorded only hours before the tragic shooting at Santa Fe High School that killed 10 people and in a sad coincidence, it turns out the shooting hit very close to home for one of my guests.
Josh: Hello?
Dylan: Hey, Josh. How are you?
Josh: I'm good. How are you?
Dylan: I'm good, I'm good. Josh. We're only doing this followup call that I've actually never done before because there is a very weird coincidence. Why don't you take it away to explain what the coincidence is?
Josh: It's coincidence of it without giving away my exact location would be that Santa Fe High School is seven miles from where I live.
Dylan: So have you visited the school?
Josh: Yeah, me and my mom went up to see the school. We ended up going to the Dollar Store and got an angel, a little statue and went up to the school and just put it there and stood by their memorial with a lot of people for a little bit.
Dylan: And you were telling me in our messages that you and your mom prayed there, right?
Josh: Yeah.
Dylan: Why prayer for you?
Josh: It's for one, it's how I was raised up. It's how a lot of people down here get through hard things because when you pray you don't put the burden or the grief because you're still going to be going through it, but you put it all to God. At least to me, because I know some don't believe, but in my way, I see that giving it to God is taking a little bit of the stress off of you and giving it to him.
Dylan: You reached out to me right after it happened to ask if you could say something if you could make a statement in addition to our call. What was that statement that you wanted to make?
Josh: Essentially it was, don't think that it can't happen to you.
Dylan: Uh-huh.
Josh: You know, I believe that thoughts and prayers work, but if you don't think prayers do anything, then forget the prayer part. Go straight for the thoughts part. I believe that you need God and prayer, but if you can't believe in that, just be there for the community. Don't try and turn this into a political argument. Just be there for them. Be a community.
Dylan: And you don't think that being a community is taking action and taking part in your community in politics by trying to pass laws that prevent something like this from happening again?
Josh: I believe there should be stricter background checks, but I do want to say that any argument that I make, or you make, or Sarah makes, to these parents and these kids, it's irrelevant right now because I believe all that they need to focus on in healing right now because none of us can understand what it's like to lose a child. I think that we just need to be there for them right now and give them time to grieve.
Dylan: I don't know, but I also think it's fair to acknowledge that you and I and Sarah all have different ways that we kind of show love. Do you know what I mean? To me, showing love is taking action against it, but I also respect the fact that you don't see that as loving or as loving as praying for people, you know?
Josh: So can I ask a personal question that of course doesn't need to be in the call?
Dylan: Of course.
Josh: Do you think that thoughts and prayers help at all?
Dylan: I'm actually really glad you asked it because I think thoughts and prayers can be a necessary ingredient in the recipe for change. Do you know what I mean? Which is to say like, I acknowledge that so many of us sometimes me included, turn to religion, turn to a higher power to make sense of the nonsensical in this world. But I also think prayer to me, is your private conversation with a higher power, right? With God typically. And I feel it's also about being proactive, you know? I think action, taking action, finding ways to make sure this won't happen again is also a form of an appeal to a higher power. But what I do believe in, not to be super cheesy, but what I really, really do believe in is having people communicate with each other about why they think differently. So that is something I believe in to be honest. Our conversation, the conversation that you and I just had the conversation that you, me and Sarah had, that's not single handedly going to change everything. You know what I mean?
Josh: Yeah.
Dylan: I guess that's like, and to be honest, that's like my own form of prayer.
Josh: Lead conversation?
Dylan: Yeah. Does that sound weird?
Josh: In a sense, if you're looking at it out of context, then I would call you insane, but when you're looking at it in context then with what we've talked about, then it makes complete sense.
Dylan: Well, I guess all I want to say to you is be safe.
Josh: Always. You as well.
Dylan: Yeah, sounds good. Well, talk to you soon Josh. Okay?
Josh: Talk to you soon. Have a good night.
Dylan: You too. Bye.
Josh: Bye.
[Phone call ends with a hang up sound. The drumbeat from ‘These Dark Times’ by Caged Animals kicks in.]
Dylan [VOICEOVER CLOSING CREDITS]: If you'd like to be a guest on this show and take your own online conversation and move it offline, please visit www.conversationswithpeoplewhohateme.com for more information.
“Conversations With People Who Hate Me” is a production of Night Vale Presents. Vincent Cacchione is the sound engineer and mixer. Christy Gressman is the Executive Producer. The theme song is "These Dark Times" by Caged Animals. The logo was designed by Rob Wilson and this podcast was created, produced, and hosted by me, Dylan Marron.
Special thanks to Adam Cecil, Emily Moler, and our publicist, Megan Larson.
We'll be releasing episodes every other week, so I'll see you in two weeks with a brand new conversation. Until then, remember: there is a human on the other side of the screen.
[Chorus of ‘These Darks Times’ by Caged Animals plays.]